/home/nand

Comment from Miles
Time: June 23, 2008, 7:55 pm

6 > Think SEO

Comment from tacone
Time: June 23, 2008, 9:44 pm

1. Sure it would.
2. It’s quite fine, but would need to be strictly integrated with launchpad. Does U.Brainstorm support launchpad authentication ? Also would be nice to see in launchpad a list of the ideas pointing to a particular bug or blueprint. And by the way, even launchpad has not a wiki to write blueprints on right now, and that’s VERY bad.
3. Ideally one should be able to decide where to store it’s data. But a brainstorm data with a complete export function (sql dump, csv) would do. Don’t lock data, never ever. Don’t forget many upstream projects were reclutant at first with launchpad. (Elisa for example took some time to switch to launchpad)
4. Definitely a dedicated domainname would be much better. it’s cheap also :-). If it’s not possible use a launchpad subdomain . eg: ideas.launchpad.net/myproject. Please don’t use the ubuntu brand for that.
5. depends on the project. Big project could do that to avoid user confusion if they have already something like that.
6. If you host it on ubuntu.com (DON’T !!) or launchpad i’d prefer subdirectory. If you get to put together the money for a new domain, definitely myproject.uberideasite.com
7. yes. Give a wiki to every project. A wiki, a wiki a wiki. Also being able to see related brainstorm ideas for every bug or blueprint present in launchpad would be pretty cool.

Please make this comment box larger. thanks

Comment from Rick Harding
Time: June 23, 2008, 9:45 pm

1) I’m not sure. The project has enough work as it, and ideas without offer to help implement are really just told to go make a blueprint and find someone to bribe.

2-7) This would best be done as an addition to the Launchpad page. We already have a project page there. People could then view a tab for brainstorm ideas and vote for them.

Then it would be great if developers could take a brainstorm idea and “convert to ticket” assigned to them. Then work could go on as a wishlist item and once released, it would show the brainstorm item as implemented. This would do a couple of things. People who voted for the idea could be notified the feature was implemented, you could view stats on how often a brainstorm idea made it into the actual project, and finally it’s already part of the Launchpad workflow and really eases the work there for projects.

So since we’re already using LP, keeping it on that url doesn’t pose a problem and the project naming is already set.

Comment from Vadim P.
Time: June 23, 2008, 10:22 pm

1. Yes, it would - works better than a web forum.
2. The votes cast for and against an idea.
3. Ubuntu hosting - so I don’t have to deal with setting brainstorm up and maintaining and whatnot. Just request it and go.
4. No, I don’t have any problems with the branding. It is a Ubuntu project, so this’ll fairly give it the recognition.
5. I wouldn’t, but some might.
6. Doesn’t matter.
7. Finally, anything else? Tight Launchpad integration. Launchpad is a very easy to use service for both project managers and end-users, so integration with it would be ideal. Although it already does it for the most part.

Comment from Vadim P.
Time: June 23, 2008, 10:23 pm

Oh, and no wiki’s, please. That’s not the purpose of brainstorm - there are wiki engines you can setup for that.

Comment from tacone
Time: June 23, 2008, 10:29 pm

@Vadim P: sorry, wiki’s are not really related to brainstorm, just one of my current frustrations with launchpad

Comment from anonymous
Time: June 24, 2008, 10:45 am

1. No. Way too closely tied to Ubuntu.

2. This sounds much better, albeit still doubtfully.

3. All the projects I am involved in are hosted in their own self-standing servers. This is unlikely going to change.

4. Likely yes. A dedicated domain name is a necessity in majority of cases. Associating a “serious” project with ideas such as *make Bootloader on Ubuntu look better” does more harm than good.

5. Given the above points, very likely yes. Please do not take this route.

6. Neither.

7. I think Ubuntu is trying hard to achieve something that can not be achieved. For strictly Ubuntu-related projects, this sounds like a great idea, but otherwise I remain sceptical. Much more clearly expressed opinions are needed about the goals and ties to Ubuntu. Formal assurance on hosting would be required for years to come, on a fully stable platform.

Comment from nand
Time: June 24, 2008, 2:32 pm

Thanks for your answers! I’m happy to get various opinions on this subject.

First, making project-specific entry points to Brainstorm automatically for all the upstream projects is definitely not good. I was toying at the thought, but putting this “fait accompli” at the face of upstream projects is no good manners. We will thus put these entry points on request.
Integration with LP is an hard one. LP is coded in python while brainstorm is in PHP, LP is closed source while brainstorm is open (and GPL), … I recall having heard the LP team had a similar thing like brainstorm in mind, but this was definitely not on top of their todo list.

Comment from nand
Time: June 24, 2008, 2:40 pm

Concerning the motivation at making these “sub-Brainstorm” websites, it’s quite simple: The Ubuntu community is very large. On the thousands of inputs we get, a good deal of them concerns upstream projects, and unless upstream people pass by to check, they are basically lost. By setting up these sub-brainstorms website, we allow upstream people *willing to participate*, to manage the flow of feedback from Ubuntu users to theirs projects, by giving them admin tools.

Comment from flimm
Time: June 24, 2008, 3:29 pm

Couldn’t you integrate brainstorm into launchpad? That would be great! Launchpad’s blueprints require more than just an idea, but brainstorm doesn’t.

Comment from tacone
Time: June 24, 2008, 3:36 pm

Integration with Launchpad should be made based on public API’s. In that way PHP/Python/whatever shouldn’t matter to much.

About Launchpad being closed source, you really should try to put together a project plan talk about it to the launchpad guys, they could be interested to help you. They have already a complete API on their roadmap, so maybe brainstorm’s site could be one of the early test cases.

You really *want* to make this nominally (even if code is detached) a part of Launchpad. If it’s not possible, get a non-ubuntu domainname/brand.

Comment from anonymous
Time: June 24, 2008, 8:52 pm

With the danger of picking for the sake of it, the following quote quite well captures what I, as a so-called upstream developer, object:

“On the thousands of inputs we get, a good deal of them concerns upstream projects, and unless upstream people pass by to check, they are basically lost. By setting up these sub-brainstorms website, we allow upstream people *willing to participate*, to manage the flow of feedback from Ubuntu users to theirs projects, by giving them admin tools.”

1. Most of the upstream projects have their well-managed, well-functioning channels for communication.

2. We want to code, we do not want yet another issue to manage (or to “participate”).

3. But most of the projects do very much appreciate the feedback from both users and developers of these so-called downstream vendors, as long as it is done within the old, well-established channels and frameworks — you fail to understand that it is you (Ubuntu) that needs to participate with us, not the other way around. Why not direct the users and/or developers to our communication channels? After all, that is the way we do it with all other players in the field. If you fail to understand that, it is you (Ubuntu) that is going to lose and fast.

4. My own personal experience is that many projects are also very interested in the collaboration offered by Ubuntu in terms of Launchpad and now Brainstrom. Already an alternative to the sad situation of open source project hosting is a great and warmly welcomed idea. But too many questions remain unanswered. One of these is branding, other is the new and mildly offensive attitude that we would code with any particular downstream vendor in mind,

Despite of the skepticism, keep up the good work. Brainstorm has a great amount of unredeemed potential.

Comment from nand
Time: June 24, 2008, 9:32 pm

@ Anonymous:
Concerning the point 3, you’re right on this point : distros also needs to participate with upstream projects. At the moment, you can forward bug reports on Launchpad to upstream bug trackers, and track automatically their status. That’s done with some valid and complete bugs, and IMO that’s quite good: the distros filter the noise and send the valid ones. The bad point I see is that it is not done enough.

Brainstorm, being fairly new, does not have such a feature yet, but I have this in mind (see http://www.ndeschildre.net/2008/05/07/decentralized-brainstorm/ ). When I’m proposing these entry points for projects on brainstorm.ubuntu.com itself, the main usecases I have in mind are the small upstream projects that do not have the infrastructure (e.g. no website, no forums) to handle feedback, and the upstream projects that want to try better tools to handle feedback on a large scale (I know some of them).

Now, I’m open to suggestions : what would be for you, as an upstream developer/maintainer, the best way to forward information (bugs / ideas / feedback) to you, *concretely*? How would you want it?

A concrete example : I have over hundreds of suggestion for the Nautilus file browser, some very popular, some totally buried. How would you this informations to be send to you? Technically?
Forwarding it to your forums? To your bug tracker as wishlist items? To another brainstorm instance that is located on *your* server?

The more input I get the better I can design, so please, go on

Comment from foo
Time: June 25, 2008, 1:12 pm

No, Ubuntu sucks.